viperdsl Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Hello guys, hopefully someone could help me out. I was monitoring with aida64 for the last years, and i got an really big problem. When the grafics card is going to ULPS ( Ultra Low Power State) the system is hanging and not waking up anymore. The other thing is, when i use MSI Afterburner in addition - i got an Bluescreen when the card is going to ULPS - i would not use Afterburner, if Aida would work, but at the moment aida doesnt work - so i would not renewal my lincense until there is an solution! Many Regards, Fabian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The issue is caused by ULPS. When using ULPS, and when the secondary GPU (or GPUs) go to sleep, it becomes very unstable to read GPU information for the secondary GPU. When a software tries to do that, the system could hang. We've been expecting AMD to resolve this bug of their video drivers for years already, but apparently it is still there and still causes such issues You can fix it by using either one of these workarounds: 1) Disable ULPS by scanning the Windows Registry for EnableUlps values, and setting them all to 0 (zero). You need to restart Windows to apply the changes. You will however increase the overall system draw of your system this way. 2) Disable Multi GPU support in AIDA64 / main menu / File / Preferences / Stability. You need to restart AIDA64 to apply the changes. You will however lose GPU information for the secondary GPU this way. Regards, Fiery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 Well changed from two cpu's to one of them - same issue - that my be the reason why my pc i going to be unstable when in ULPS. But another interesting question would be why the adaptor wakes up nearly every second when in ULPS. Well i will have to look how much energy it saves.... Are you in contact with AMD because of that issue?? The funny thing ist - with the MSI Afterburner it works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 The issue is caused by ULPS. When using ULPS, and when the secondary GPU (or GPUs) go to sleep, it becomes very unstable to read GPU information for the secondary GPU. When a software tries to do that, the system could hang. We've been expecting AMD to resolve this bug of their video drivers for years already, but apparently it is still there and still causes such issues You can fix it by using either one of these workarounds: 1) Disable ULPS by scanning the Windows Registry for EnableUlps values, and setting them all to 0 (zero). You need to restart Windows to apply the changes. You will however increase the overall system draw of your system this way. 2) Disable Multi GPU support in AIDA64 / main menu / File / Preferences / Stability. You need to restart AIDA64 to apply the changes. You will however lose GPU information for the secondary GPU this way. Regards, Fiery And there is another Question - now i searched for an alternative in monitoring. I found the free HWInfo tool. It works also with my logitech LCD Panel. I stored the same things, and it works! No black or blue screens with MSI afterburner and so on. Can you maybe tell me why? - Why doesnt works that with AIDA64 - i liked Aida64 very much, so the problem is very dont understandable for me! Thanky again for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I think HWiNFO must be using special tricks to avoid ULPS being a problem. It probably never reads GPU registers when the GPU is in sleep mode. We'll implement a few more workarounds to make AIDA64 more stable with ULPS. We'll roll those fixes out as a new AIDA64 beta update soon. I'll post a message into this topic once the new AIDA64 beta is available for download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 Thsi would be very nice of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Here's the mentioned new AIDA64 beta: http://www.aida64.com/downloads/latesta64xebeta Let me know how it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thany you! I will test it today in the evening or maybe tomorrow - because i have an late shift at work! By the way, are you one of the programmers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 By the way, are you one of the programmers? Yes, I am one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Well I am at testing, and it seems to run fine ( will have a longer test ). Maybe i will renew my license now - can you maybe tell me, if there maybe would be an action for an new years deal or something - just because it was much cheaper 2 years ago. And i would like to take an 2 years license. Would be nice if there was something like an coupon. Well i will go on testing. Thank you so very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thank you for your feedback. I've also sent you a private message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thank you so very much for your support, and i will go on with that. But now, my PC was about 1 hour in ULPS ( same thing as i tried with afterburner or HWInfo )... I cannot say when, but on some time in that hour i had the same issue. All LED's on the Fury X went on, and there was an system freeze. So maybe it is an Problem with the old INI-File?! Hopefully you can manage the failure, because i am an Aida fan since Everest ( yes i used that too very often ). I think there will be an way in that we can manage to get those failures - i will keep my support if you keep sending me test versions - i love to test new versions and give some feedback! Okay - now i made an NEW ini File ( my old was about 3 years ) - and will test it now. Still with the latest beta. I disabled Multi-GPU Support because i just have one. - Going to test right now - will write new results. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 We've further improved the ULPS workarounds in the following new AIDA64 Extreme beta update: http://www.aida64.com/downloads/latesta64xebeta Let me know how it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hello Fiery - today i bought my renewal. Just because the very good support you guys spend to us PC Crazies. But back to topic - today it was okay, only one time the PC freezed in ULPS - i will try the new beta in some minutes. In MSI Afterburner there is an option 'driver reset afer ULPS' - can you maybe do something like that with Aida too? The last time i tried AIDA with Afterburner - the PC got an Bluescreen when entering ULPS - do you know somethig about that? Will test and write later... stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hello Fiery - today i bought my renewal. Just because the very good support you guys spend to us PC Crazies. Thank you, I hope we can continue working together But back to topic - today it was okay, only one time the PC freezed in ULPS - i will try the new beta in some minutes. In MSI Afterburner there is an option 'driver reset afer ULPS' - can you maybe do something like that with Aida too? The last time i tried AIDA with Afterburner - the PC got an Bluescreen when entering ULPS - do you know somethig about that? Will test and write later... stay tuned. Quite frankly, I have no idea what that option does. The problem with ULPS is that there's no 100% sure way to avoid having issues when it is active. The way it works is: when you try to read a GPU register, like the one used to calculate GPU clock, or another one used for measuring GPU temperature (etc), and the GPU in question is asleep (due to ULPS previously put it to sleep), the system will throw a fatal error. What we do now is try to detect if the GPU is asleep before reading out GPU properties and before polling GPU sensors. In theory that should help to avoid issues, but there's a slim chance that the GPU is not asleep when we check the sleep state but goes to sleep right after it -- but before we actually start reading various GPU registers. Or it could go to sleep between reading two GPU registers, etc. It would be the safest to check GPU sleep state before every GPU register readouts, but that would make polling GPU properties and especially GPU sensors a lot slower than now. The performance of that solution would be abysmal, and that's why we still stick to our previous stance: you need to disable ULPS or disable polling non-primary GPUs to make it 100% stable. BTW, when the whole issue of ULPS was first introduced, back in the Radeon HD 5970 days, we hoped AMD would solve this quickly. By simply patching Catalyst drivers it would be very easy to solve this, and there could be multiple ways to achieve the goal. For example, a software could request Catalyst for a temporary wakeup of GPUs for the time of polling GPU registers. Or, a software could request Catalyst to initiate a GPU register readout while retaining the sleep state but not ending the register readout in a fatal error (sort of a "safe GPU register readout" -- which is now not available). Sadly, so far AMD didn't implement any of such tricks to let 3rd party applications handle ULPS properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Okay, first Update for you guys. Actual Beta ( the last one ) - I activatet the MSI Afterburner, together with the MSI Afterburner ( 4.20 ) - and there is no bluescreen when entering ULPS anymore. Now Aida is not showing me on display ( in ULPS ) Gpu MHZ; GPU MEM and GPU Usage - and the temp is at 0 - What is allright because it should be and is in sleepmodus. Seems to work much better this time - together with the Afterburner. We will see... I leave it run until i go to bed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes, it's normal. All measured values, including GPU and GPU memory clock, GPU temperature, GPU voltages, GPU fan RPM will turn to zero when the GPU in question goes to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 That is allright. Now the PC was about 1 hour in sleepmode. Then the GPU Powered up, and the System was freezing - any ideas to that? No Bluescreen or something, just in 'full power mode' and not waking up... But i love to do some tests... Its just some fun for me. Tomorrow i will go on testing. I personally think it was better with the last BETA. I am thinking we will solve the problem! - we are near on it and that it works with HWinfo64 makes me happy, so it seems the Problem is not unuseable. But will it be making sense, writing an email to AMD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 While waking up, Catalyst may have reported that the GPU is not sleeping anymore, but the GPU was still not ready to accept GPU register readouts properly. As you can see, it's still a messy situation. I'm not sure what HWiNFO64 does differently, but I'm pretty sure ULPS will not work with it 100% reliable either, at least if you let it run for a few hours. We and also the authors of several other 3rd party applications have been nagging AMD for years to solve the ULPS issue. But for some reason they don't listen and just keep pushing their solution as is. It's a lot like how Asus refuses to fix AI Suite, so AMD is not alone at being hard-headed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Well maybe it would be intersting to you guys, but when i turn off Afterburner it seems to run MUCH better... Could that be, because there are 2 programs are using the same driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Interesting... But it shouldn't be a problem, since Afterburner is synchronized with AIDA64 and other monitoring software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 Will go on testing today. Would you know an interesting fact? - When i turn on GoG.Galaxy ( its from GoG.com ) the card is going on, and off - all the time.... Okay, now i just let run my pc for several hours - normally after one hour i came back, and ULPS worked. Now the pc was alone for more than one hour - and the Fury got on Full Power, the monitor stayed off, and my system crashed. Do we have any possibilities to log that event - so that we can see what exactly happens than? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 Got an new issue i never had before - maybe you yould help me. I am playing the Witcher 3 ( since June ) and when i play now and AIDA OR HWINFO ia on, the sound got stuck every about 30 seconds - do you know something about that? And what can i do against that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Will go on testing today. Would you know an interesting fact? - When i turn on GoG.Galaxy ( its from GoG.com ) the card is going on, and off - all the time.... Okay, now i just let run my pc for several hours - normally after one hour i came back, and ULPS worked. Now the pc was alone for more than one hour - and the Fury got on Full Power, the monitor stayed off, and my system crashed. Do we have any possibilities to log that event - so that we can see what exactly happens than? I'm sorry, but the crash is due to ULPS, so there's nothing to log about that. We could log all GPU register readouts to see which register reading causes the crash, but since ULPS crashes on any registers you try to read when the GPU is asleep, having a register index wouldn't help at all. As I've previously mentioned, to assure 100% stability when ULPS is enabled, we would have to check GPU sleep state before reading or writing each GPU register. And that would make GPU polling very slow, so it wouldn't be any better than the other workarounds. As for the 30 seconds issue, that could be caused by many things. It may or may not be related to GPU polling. What you can try is right-clicking on the bottom status bar of AIDA64 main window --> HWMon Modules, and disable those modules one by one, by removing the ticks next to them. Start with HDD, then disable GPU, and then go on until you find the culprit. You may need to enable status bar in AIDA64 / main menu / View first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdsl Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 Happy new year Fiery! The funny fact i did not have the Issue with the Old AIDA64 version - but i don't have the INI anymore Well put your hand on your heart - does an update on windows 10 make sense or does it not? You are one of the guys who knows much on the hardware - so you could tell that to me! Okay i just did switch the SSD checking off, so i have no Problem with stuttering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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